Steve Hoffacker's Sales Quips: Everything We Never Wanted , But May Get Anyway

Steve:  I cannot help but ask the following question:  What if... whatever personal health care affordability situation you are currently in... was in a total shambles ?  What IF... you could not afford any sort of health care whatsoever ?  What IF... your wife, or your child, was seriously ill... and you had no means whatsoever of having her treated to save her life ?  IF that were the case... would you then still call this "a lousy health care bill ?"  Sorry to get so "personal" with you... but it helps make my point.

Karen,

Citing any of those conditions you mention doesn't change the facts. It is a lousy health care bill on it's face, and the entire premise is flawed. Thanks for asking. :)

Steve

Steve:  Thanks for your reply... but what I would love to see... is an actual reasoned-out response as to exactly why this is a "lousy health care bill"... point by point, with actual reasons for each point... and then part two... which would be your suggestions (besides quitting entirely) on how to reform health care so that more people can be covered.  I would love to hear your thoughts and the reasoning behind them.  Thanks so much.

Health car reform.  It will never fail to make us question. Is it this or that.  Good or bad

shelton

Karen,

The Constitution does not give the Congress or the President the right to run, enforce, or meddle in health care. It's a personal matter. Health insurance is regulated, but not the provision of health care. That is a state issue. Therefore, the issue is without merit. Coverage also is a personal issue. Insurance is not a right, and many people choose to forego it or self-insure on a pay-as-you-go. Some with insurance pay large amounts or have restricted coverage. :)

Steve

Interesting how everything this administration does, is a power grab. They're a failure at everything they try, yet some people think they should be in control of their healthcare.

Shelton,

It is outside the purview of the federal government. That's why all of this discussion is so scary in terms of what they might actually try to force on us. :)

Steve

Jon,

It's more than just the administration. Congress is a power-hungry bunch. :)

Steve

Steve - it also gives the Secretary of HHS extreme power over our personal lives. There are over 1500 instances where "the Secretary" is given unfettered, unregulated and total discretionary power. Plus, it even contradicts itself. It will drive doctors out of the medicare business, giving seniors reduced service accessibility.

Steve,  No one who is in favor of unilateral health care reform can answer your query about the Constitution.  It is illegal for our government to mandate a product and make failure purchase that product punishable under the law.  Why are they so anxious to trash our freedoms?

Every American should be putting the brakes on this illegal activity of our elected officials.

Steve...

It is what it is and it's unstoppable. Too bad, I don't see what the big rush is all about.

I personaly know 3 Dr.s who said they would either retire from medicine or severly restrict the type of clientel they would service if this bill goes through.  Medicare would be one of the first to go.

Most states have some kind of medical care for everyone in one shape or form.  What they need it the money to fund it.  It would be a lot cheapoer to fund the currnet systems than to start increaseing the cost by having the Goverment involved in making decisions.

Mike,

I don't know of anything good in this bill, and we haven't even seen the final language - nor have the legislators. :)

Steve

Bonnie,

I think part of the answer to your question about freedoms is a misplaced sense of security - people are trusting their government to do what they should be doing for themseleves and their familiies. Also, kids in our public schools are not taught free enterprise, only socialism. :)

Steve

Richard,

As far I can tell and from I've herad, the rush is to give the Big 3 - Obama, Pelosi, and Reid - bragging rights and the ability to move on to other horrible attacks on our freedoms. :)

Steve

William,

Two things are certain if this plan were ever to be enacted: it couldn't be well-enough staffed to make it work, and we couldn't fund it. :)

Steve

Health Care is not a right, it is a privilege.

Home Ownership is not a right, it is a privilege.

Throughout the health care debate so many politicians pointed out ways to decrease fraud.  I would like to see the government successful in eliminating fraud from our existing health care system.

I would like to see the government fix social security and medicare before taking on another challenge. 

If the government cannot fix existing programs that are rampant with fraud and abuse, why create another?

Steve, No matter what I think about Health Care Reform my personal focus is on JOB CREATION FOR OUR NATION.  Sorry if I said that a little loud.  I'm just trying to get the word out. LOL

Steve - Well said, " The Constitution does not give the Congress or the President the right to run, enforce, or meddle....in the affairs of state constitutions.

Liberals don't believe in the Constitution, brother. We have to educate them once again.

Melissa,

Right on! Excellent. Agreed. :)

Steve

Congratulations this post is now featured in Silent Majority of Active Rain.

Nicholas,

Thank you. Appreciate the support and the feature. :)

Steve

Steve,

Job creation is going to take a back seat to all of the attacks on free enterprise that we are seeing from Washington. Taxes, mandates, and excessive regulation stifle job growth. BTW, the government has never created a private sector job. It can't. :)

Steve

Steve

I agree with Steve Clain, Washington should be working on creating jobs to get the economy going.

Good luck and and success.

Lou Ludwig

Lou,

Since Washington can't really creat jobs in the private sector, and we don't really need any more government jobs, Washington should just get out of the way and let us doi it. :)

Steve

It is becoming more apparent than ever, to even folks who don't usuallly participate in the political process, that our govt is not capable of running our healthcare. They will mess it up somehow and a majority of Americans is figuring that out. Add to that the fact that everyone else has made, healthcare is nothing more than a privilege.

To say that "healthcare is a privilege" is elitist, it is unfair, it is "un-christian" (for all you Christian Taliban in the crowd)... and it is just plain wrong.  Good thing the "Good Samaritan" didn't feel that way.  There are other things on the Obama menu that I would agree are more of a privilege... but not being left to die because you cannot afford health care coverage.  Rubbish !  Anyone who thinks otherwise... regardless of the myriad of reasons you conjure up... is just plain selfish.

The Preamble to the Constitution says America is to "Promote the General Welfare."  If keeping someone alive and health does not come under that... what does ?

Kevin,

Not only that, but they have no authority to do so - unless you count Medicar or the VA as setting a precedent. See Amendment X to the US Constitution, :)

Steve

Karen,

A right is something bestowed by the Constitution. Therefore, health care - by definition - is not a right. It is a privelege. Re-read the Preamble. It says that we the people create the Constitution (not the government and not the country) to - among other things, "promote the general welfare." We could get into a huge debate over what constitutes "general welfare," but that is not germaine to the discussion. The fact is that the Constuitution does not empower the Congress or the Executive to do what they intend to do. :)

Steve

Oh Poop !   LOL.

Steve, many many voting citizens are just as disgusted as you are.  Take heart!  Be active.  Be heard.  The loons from the left will always use poor reasoning to STEAL from one group to give to another group...to make themselves "feel" better about themselves!  I wish they'd all get a life and stop picking the pockets of the producers in this Nation.  But it is much easier for these lazy types to advocate giving something to someone else.

What will become the new ENTITLEMENT after healthcare?

Better question.  When will all these ENTITLEMENTS break our very Nation budget and soul of the working, producing citizens? 

UTOPIA DOESN'T EXIST.  It is an impossibility where there is no limits on anything!!

GOD DID NOT GUARANTEE ANYTHING and that includes the services and money FROM OTHERS, ie, healthcare.

There are many who do not buy healthcare insurance.  They CHOOSE not to.  They CHOOSE to gamble that they will spend less by paying for only what they need or want to pay for.  Karen, you are a big proponent of CHOICE.   Why then are you advocating to TAKE THE CHOICE AWAY from all citizens about healthcare? 

The governmnet will CONTROL:  

* That you MUST purchase healthcare insurance (penalties provided by the IRS)

* What is CONTAINED in your "Qualified Plan"  (no CHOICE allowed. We will get the details of what is in the plan 18 mo. after we are enrolled.  Nothing like buying something blind!! The cost for a family earning $45,000 a year will be approx $7,300)

* How much you WILL PAY for healthcare (yours and everyone else's who you will subsidize if you are healthy!)

Note:  This is really the SHAFT for those of us who CHOOSE TO LIVE HEALTHY LIFESTYLES.  I'd personally love to eat more junk food, chocolate and pastries.  I'd enjoy not working out so much, but I will get fat if I change my healthy habits.  Karen, you look to be on the obese side, therefore you will cost us healthy lifestyle people money because of your poor CHOICES!)

* Who gets what services.  (There are provisions in the House Bill to take services from some areas and give services in minority areas. Their words, not mine.  What people need to understand is that there will be a shortage of doctors, nurses and other healthcare providers.)

* RATIONED CARE.  Yes, the mammogram and pap smear limitations have already begun. 

* Medicare changes from the patient selecting their doctors to a "Medical Home". That is the governments version of an HMO...very RESTRICTIVE healthcare.

And this is just a small, small sampling of what is contained in these atrocious bills.

This is nothing more than a power grab!  It has NOTHING to do with healthcare.  If it did, they would be doing something about TORT REFORM...MONOPOLIES...and GOVERNMENT WASTE.

Georgia:  How nice of you to notice.  You said:  "Karen, you look to be on the obese side, therefore you will cost us healthy lifestyle people money because of your poor CHOICES!"

Well... Georgia, you sound like you are quite gullible, and appear to easily swallow much of the conservative nonsense you are spoon-fed... which has obviously led you to make "POOR CHOICES."  

Therefore, you will cost us folks with working brain cells money because of your apparent gullibility... which I would guess would be best cured by extensive reality therapy from a certified professional counselor, plus a strict diet of abstaining from watching Fox News.  Please, my dear, do not be depressed.  Help is available for "folks like you."  LOL.

Let's be real here Karen, your own doctor has called you obese.  You demand choice in regard to abortion, but deny everyone else their CHOICE in healthcare.  Hypocrite comes to mind.

I can give you a ton of sources that PROVE you and your POOR CHOICES will cost those who CHOOSE to do the hard thing and live a healthy lifestyle.  Where is your proof on your statement?

Miss Georgia:  No one is suggesting that you be denied your choices in health care.  I am just suggesting that those who are now without health care be allowed a choice, too.

And about proof ?  Nobody else here provides any proof about things they say... these are all "opinions."  So... why should I be expected or required to provide proof of anything ?

I think I have wasted enough time here... so I am done burning up time making comments on this post.  You guys will have to go on without me.  I have to go back out into the working world, now... so... have a Wonderful Tuesday.  Take care...

By the way... Georgia, since you are not an Active Rain member... you continue to have the luxury of commenting and being completely anonymous.  

So... you do not provide a picture of yourself for anyone to make fun of... like you did with mine.  By the way... I would never do that.  But, then again, making fun of people is a choice, too... isn't it 

I wrote this post because I firmly believe that health care is not a topic for the federal government and should not be the subject of enormous debate with potentially devasting results. That said, let's stick to that idea with our comments and not offer hyperbole or personal attacks. Thanks. :)

Steve

Steve,  Thank you for reigning in the discussion.

The Preamble to the Constitution says:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Preamble is an introduction to the document known as the Constitution.  The wording is very specific.

ESTABLISH Justice, INSURE Domestic tranquility, PROVIDE for the common defense, PROMOTE the general welfare etc.

Establish, Insure and Provide are compelling actions.  Promote is passive.

There is no provision in the preamble to establish, insure or provide any benefit to the public except justice, domestic tranquility and defense.

Got it Steve.  I am going to reply to Karen though. Obese is a clinical term, not an attack. 

Karen, I didn't make fun of you.  Believe me, you'd know if I had.  I pointed out a fact...yes, by CHOICE.   Don't like the fact, change it.  It is your choice.  The fact that I am trying to convey is that government takeover of our healthcare system takes away our choice.  Period.  No more choosing whether to have insurance.  No choosing what kind of coverage.  No choosing to NOT pay for other people's poor lifestyle choices. 

"By 2018, obesity will account for more than 21 percent of healthcare spending, with a cost of $1,425 per person, which is a rise from $361 per adult in 2009."

"It is common knowledge that a person who chooses to smoke pays higher health insurance costs because such an activity causes health care problems (Curry, 1998). Conditions such as emphysema, cancer, heart attack, and stroke are just a few of the many ill health effects associated with cigarettes. Yet, an obese person typically does not pay more than someone of healthy weight, even though there are over 50 types of physical health problems and mental health problems associated with obesity (Van Itallie, 1979). Problems such as dementia, stroke, high blood pressure, depression and asthma are just a few of the vast list. Just how much does it cost to be obese?

Perhaps what is happening in America with the Tea Party folks and those finally finding their voices is that the RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS are fed up with having to pay for the IRRESPONSIBLE people who want everything GIVEN to them!!

Bonnie,

Thanks. Additionally, the Premable is not the document and carries no weight - only the concept. :)

Steve

Steve- let me apologize in advance, because what I am about to say has no place in your post, but since Georgia is an anonymous commenter I have no other forum to say it.

Georgia- And I hope that's your name and not your state, I live in Georgia and I'm down right ashamed of your behavior.  First of all I don't really think Karen Anne has invited you to go on her physicians visits with her, so how do you know what her doctor has or has not said to her?  And secondly, I too am obese, can you tell from my photo?  But guess what, I'm healthy.  Last year I went to my GP for something minor only to find out that they had stuck my files in storage because I hadn't been in over 3 years.  I get my regular pap and mammogram to prevent death by stupidity, but that's it.

And while I agree with Steve's post and possibly even you and I share the same opinion of the health care bill, but you were rude and it's not called for.  It's not in the spirit of this forum and you are no better than any other person even if you say you are more fit.

So let me explain to you that when you typed this {Karen, you look to be on the obese side, therefore you will cost us healthy lifestyle people money because of your poor CHOICES!) you made a VERY poor choice too.  It was a personal attack on Karen Anne and truly in bad taste and not called for.  I certainly hope you don't consider yourself Christian because if you do then you're the other name you called Karen Anne in your comment a hypocrite.

So while you  hide behind your aninimity I believe as an American citizen you are certainly entitled to your opinion on health care as am I, and Steve and Karen and we all have the right under out consitution to voice our opinions, but you really don't have the right to call my friend names, so please reconsider your rude position and try real hard to stick to the issue and not resort to name calling like a 3rd grader if someone has a different opinion from you.

Steve,

Great Post!!

To the issue of the Constitution you are right on target. This bill is completely unconstitutional.

To Karen Anne, I invite you to read this post.

"The history of institutionalized health care is so intimately intertwined with the history of Christianity, especially Catholic Christianity, that it is no exaggeration to say that the latter gave rise to the former.

But for the purposes of the current American health care debate, two main questions stand out: Did the early Church relinquish all responsibility for care of the sick to the state (the Roman Empire)? Did it demand the state tax the rich heavily to pay for health care for everyone?

On both counts, no, it didn't. And it is so frustrating that the leadership of Christian churches, but especially that of the Catholic Church, as well as many lay Christians have ignored the history of the Church with regard to this issue.

Even before the persecution of Christianity stopped, the early Church assumed full responsibility for the sick (including their pagan persecutors) and financed their hospitals through private charity."

That gets us back to why America has been such a Great Nation in the past. In the past we lived by the Constitution and allowed private charity and insurance to care for those desperate as Karen Anne suggests. Which is exactly what Steve is calling for. It's the Constitution that counts.

I would also encourage you to all read Tammy Lankford's post about Grover Cleveland. She states "We really should learn a lesson from Grover Cleveland and the legislation he stamped a big fat VETO on in 1887."

Her post is called "If only History would repeat itself"

I am praying my "Christian" Prayers for some Glover Cleveland's in Congress.

Thanks Steve for such a great post!!

Normally I would agree with you Tammy that a persons personal lifestyle (eating, exercise, smoking, alcohol use, drugs, etc) have no business being discussed...especially on a chat board.  That those sensitive subjects are too personal.   

The reason obesity is important in this discussion is that it does indeed affect all of us in regard to the healthcare takeover.  To say that I "have no right" to point it out is ridiculous considering every citizen is being FORCED to PAY for other people's obesity in the healthcare bill.

Don't want me to care or voice the facts about others poor personal choices?  Don't make me pay for their choices! 

I see this exactly like abortion.  Over the years I've come to realize that abortion should be each individual woman's choice.  That society at large has no business telling a woman what to do with her body.  BUT, while I agree that a woman should have choice, I also demand HER RESPONSIBILITY to pay for that abortion herself. 

So, if I (and every other citizen) am to be FORCED VIA PENTALY OF PRISON to pay for people's poor lifestyle choices, that makes it VERY RELIVANT and very much our business.  You can't have it both ways!  Make poor lifestyle choices and then expect others to pick up the tab without a word.  This healthcare bill is making poor personal choices in lifestyle everyone's business.

Bringing up Christianity when speaking of Karen is disingenuous at best.  I had just read a post by her where she was slamming Christians.  She does this regularly.  Being Christian doesn't mean that one can't say a word against a person who is constantly slamming their religion.  Also, saying someone is obese is not name calling.  It is a clinical term.  In this pc world, no one wants any words used for being overweight.

 Since you brought up your weight, I feel free to comment on it.  You have a sweet face BTW.  But, you are lying to yourself if you think that your weight will not harm you.  Being young has its advantages.    As one ages, that is no longer true.  For the sake of those that love you, you need to get to a healthy weight. 

 If the healthcare takeover happens, expect a lot of unintended consequences.  I am not the only one who will EXPECT people to get to a healthy weight if it's on our dime!

Georgia- respectfully I say that you could have discussed the issue without making it about an individual person.  And as an American citizen any person is entitled to voice their opinions on issues.  So w hile I really don't have a problem with your opinion, believe me I don't think I should pay for everyone's health care anymore than I think my tax dollars should have been spent for cash for clunkers or the AIG party or the bank bailouts.  I also don't think they should have been used for Nancy Pelosi to send/order $3,000 worth of flowers (really?) My point to you is that your statements about your opinion DO NOT have to "call out" any individual people.  And while you might not consider calling a person obese to be name calling, again respectually, I disagree.  If my doctor tells me when I'm in her office and she has my weight that I'm obese that's one thing, but if looking at a photo of stranger on line I call someone obese it's name calling.  You don't know for a fact.  My own daughter has a very chunky face, but she also has less than 3% body fat.

As for me being at an ideal weight, it ain't gonna happen.  I know I need to drop a few pounds and it would be helpful.  But my Grandmother was heavy and lived a healthy life until she was 90 and she passed away this year at 91 and wasn't a financial burden to anyone.  So while I agree with you that tax payers shouldn't bear the burden of paying for the healthcare of others via the government collecting taxes, I do feel it's my responsiblity to take care of those in my community who can not afford (for whatever reason) to do so themselves.  The generous spirit in this nation is one of the things that makes it great.  And people sometimes end up in trouble because they made poor choices, but I have to agree with Karen that we can't just look the other way.  I am a Christian and my bible tells me that it's my responsibility to help.  Mind you I think the government can't tell me who I need to help.  But I certainly don't have the live and let die attitude.  And I have some dimes to spare.  I can't take it with me.

Georgia, or Bill, or whatever your name is... I do NOT "slam" Christians... but I DO find it very, to use your word, disingenuous when people who "call" themselves Christians act in a very un-Christ-like manner.  I don't think that Christ Himself would call those same people "christians" either.  So... to clarify... yes... I am not a fan... not at all... of un-christian-like "christians."  Hypocracy stinks... no matter who your personal "god" is.

I consider myself a Christian.  I know many people who are Christians, and who "act" like Christians... whom I love dearly.  I feel that Christians should behave as Christ did... and not be throwing the "disadvantaged" folks without healthcare "under the bus"... as many poorly-behaving so-called Christians do.  That is not very Christ-like.  So... get your stuff straight when you choose to make such negative comments... my dear.  Just because someone does not agree with you... does not make them wrong.  Sheesh.

I do NOT "slam" Christians

it is "un-christian" (for all you Christian Taliban in the crowd)

THIS IS A DIRECT SLAM TO CHRISTIANS, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST WROTE.

CHRISTIAN TALIBAN.......ARE YOU REALLY ASSOCIATING THE TWO ??? 

BIG DIFFERENCE, BAD CHOICE OF WORDS.

Taliban? Christians? Really? Karen Anne - we have had many discussions on here and although we rarely agree I have never felt disrespect from you. I am not a Christian, but I find your reference and comparison to be nothing short of sick. How can you possibly think that makes sense? Which of today's Christians do you know of who think women are sub human? Should not allowed to drive? Can be raped without consequence for the rapist? It's a truly sick thing and you should withdraw it.

As for the main point - healthcare is NOT a right. Show it to me in the Declaration or in the Constitution? What we have done as a society has been to help those who cannot help themselves. Our system is not perfect and it needs some reform, but it is about the best system out there and the solution is NEVER Government.

Simon,

Thank you for your excellent summation.

If anyone has any other comments on my main post - that the health care "reform" bills currently being debated are unnecessary and economically damaging - feel free to offer them. Nothing off-topic or it will be deleted. :)

Steve

Melissa,

Thank you for your appropriate outrage. :)

Steve

Steve- I will remain "on topic" as long as any response I receive to my previous comment is met with mutual respect.  It is #17  and summarized below.  Thank you for your words.

Health Care is not a right, it is a privilege.

Home Ownership is not a right, it is a privilege.

Where Christian Taliban came from that I have no idea.

Great post.

Melissa,

Thank you. :)

Steve

Karen Anne,

Thanks. I'm sorry, but we've gone on too long on this tangential discussion. :)

Steve

I'm concerned that the estimates for the uninsured are false.  They are including in these figures folks who are young and don't want to pay for health insurance and also illegals.

I'm self employed and pay for my own health care every month.  I am happy with it.

Once again if the garbage that Pelosi identified as "waste" in the current medicare system could be eliminated now, then perhaps we would be on the road to a better future for that program.

If folks who are not legally in the US were not suffocating our ER rooms, perhaps we would have more money to fund hospitals.

Steve, Back to the bill.  Over 2000 pages, and soon to be bigger.  What are they really hiding in there?  And, it is going to cost money.  It is not going to be free.

No telling what it will cost the "taxpayers" in the long run.  Just like everything else the government gets their hands into, it will surely turn into a fiasco.

Steve,

I just wanted to let you know about this e-mail I just recieved. I follow several sources to be aware of what may be happening inside the beltway and this is one of them. We need to all be aware of what is actually happeing that the media is not reporting until it is to late.

From the Desk of:
Steve Elliott, Grassfire Nation

    The Senate vote on ObamaCare will happen before
    Christmas because the "hammer" is about to fall.
    Details below.        --Steve


Alice,

We have just learned that Senate Democrats are in final
preparations to unveil their healthcare "hammer" to get
ObamaCare passed.

The "hammer" is the new public option compromise being
worked out -- again behind closed doors -- that puts the
government-run public option plan under the direction of a
"non-governmental board."

As if we are to believe this is an improvement!

The "hammer public option" would be imposed immediately in
every state that does not meet the ObamaCare guidelines.

In addition, Reid and the Democrats have gotten so desperate
to pass ObamaCare prior to Christmas that we now have
positive confirmation that the "nuclear option" is still
a looming threat. (The "nuclear option" would only require
50 votes to pass ObamaCare instead of the 60 votes now
needed to end debate on the Senate floor.)

Sen. Ben Nelson acknowledged that in an op-ed. He feared
failure to cast a vote to proceed would move Reid to use
the "budget reconciliation" nuclear option.

With the "hammer" coming and the very real threat of the
nuclear option on the table, we are almost guaranteed a
vote on ObamaCare in the Senate before Christmas.


+ + 750,000 citizens needed in Grassfire Nation

We expect the "hammer public option" to be revealed next
week and we want to greet its arrival with 750,000 petitions
hand-delivered to U.S. Senate offices. Already more than
640,000 citizens in Grassfire Nation have taken a stand
against government-run health care, but I absolutely need
your help right now to push us to our petition goal!

    Take whatever time needed to get this update into the
    hands and hearts of 35-40 friends. Urgently press upon
    each of them the importance of taking immediate
    action against this devastating bill that would
    change the face of our nation.

    Have them click here now to sign the petition and have
    it hand-delivered to your two Texas senators
    as soon as we reach 750,000:

http://www.grassfire.net/r.asp?u=23382&PID=21700825

Alice, I am convinced that you and I are the last line
of defense against this aggressive reshaping of our nation,
and am counting on you to once-again rise up and help me
build a massive coalition of grassroots citizens who are
willing to stand and fight for their nation!

Thanks in advance for taking action.


Steve Elliott
Grassfire Nation

I signed the petition Alice.  Thank you for posting it!

Tammy, we'll have to agree to disagree on the one point.  I had something all typed up yesterday, but didn't hit submit because Steve doesn't deserve this on his blog.  Wishing you a great day!

Thank you Georgia!!

For those who might doubt the nature of the threats in the HEALTH CARE BILL, they should consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

Hi, Steve.  This blog sure produced some passionate exchange, & other posts ensued!

If this passes, could a bill that demands all citizens (alright illegals, too) be entitled to free homes be far behind?  It's not really too big a leap is it?  I'm praying that enough conscientious senators block this bill. 

@Georgia - your namesake is running neck and neck with Texas as my favorite state.  :)

Melissa,

The number of uninsured is a variable quantity - depending on who's counting. Two things are certain: (1) neither bill (House or Senate) eliminates all of the uninsured, and (2) the bill is not really about this. :)

Steve

Bob,

To answer the cemtral quesyion of what they are hiding - it's the overthrow of our way of life and replacing it with mandates, taxes for the sake of taxes, wealth redistribution, and curtailment of freedoms. :)

Steve

Alice,

As always, thanks for your support and for out in front on this and other similar issues. :)

Steve

Georgia,

Thank you. It's appreciated. :)

Steve

Yolanda,

Nothing is beyond the scope of this Congress. Just hope that this is the final 11 months for many of them. :)

Steve