Airlines already have done just about all they can to nickel and dime the flying public - just about.
Remember meals on nearly every flight? Remember 2 or more carry-on bags? Remember not paying for sodas and water? Remember getting bumped and getting a free ticket instead of a fixed amount? Remember airlines waiting for passengers from a connecting flight? Remember airlines putting people up for the night when it was their fault that passengers couldn't make their last connection? Remember checking several bags at no charge?
Those were the days.
Now, in addition to paying for everything except the seatbelt, airlines are discussing charging for carry-on luggage. Would a purse or briefcase then be subject to charge?
Regardless. The airlines charge and charge, and we let them. We need to demand refunds when the service is bad. We don't pay full price for a poor meal, and often are comped altogether. We receive a discount when there is a problem with our hotel room or rental car.
Airlines so far are above this. Maybe this is because they know they provide such poor customer satisfaction.
If we held airlines accountable, we would backcharge them or request vouchers or refunds when they are late (on either end), when they cancel flights for reasons other than snowstorms, when they leave us parked on the tarmac or taxiway for extended periods of time, when they oversell the flight and squeeze us in like sardines, when they are condescending or patronizing, or when they lose or damage our luggage.
It's no wonder many people choose driving over flying whenever possible.
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© Steve Hoffacker, 2009. All Rights Reserved.
Steve, I can think of so many applications for your logic here - what about charging doctors when they make us wait?
Sharon
I rarely fly as my 12 year old canine pal would want to kiss all the passengers. Myrtle Beach Direct Air is the only way my friends and family fly now. DIRECT is the key word and the flights are reasonable from about a dozen destinations- they also fly into Orlando. At times they even offer great specials. From Pgh Pa to Myrtle Beach the flight time is less than 1 1/2 hours. Granted, Pgh airport is like all other big city airports but Myrtle Beach is like Mayberry. Any other airline and the 10 hour drive by car is a picnic as little time is saved and the frustration is maxed. Thank you Direct Air!
Hi Steve, I've had few problems with the airlines, or what I would call problems. Sounds like you had a bad experience. What were your expectations? I make 9-12 trips yearly (east coast to west coast) and when I travel I have a small carry-on and I don't understand why many carry on the equivalent of a small closet for a weekend getaway. Bringing on all this luggage (and weight) adds to departure delays and increased fuel consumption (increased costs). Once you know what's in your control and what's not, travel becomes easy. It sure beats getting from place to place in a covered wagon or on horseback!
I like the comment about charging back for the doctors office visits -- when they keep you waiting.
Steve, I worry they will charge for air in the cabin, next!
Hey Steve,
Whatever happened to the "Airline Passenger Bill of Rights" they were talking about last year or so?
Rich
Personally, I'm amazed anyone would want to own an airline. Incredibly capital intensive, tightly regulated, high risk, and low return. And then burdened with passengers that want to bring their living room with them for a 2 day trip. Yikes.
Airlines have travelers in a corner. Soon they will probably charge for "defying gravity!"
Steve,
I hear your frustration! It's hard when you have to deal with all those issues when flying, but from the airline's perspective, they cannot keep some flights full, price of gas rising, can't get off runways due to weather, and they have scheduling problems with the airports all the time. Maybe they just need new management??
Hey Steve,
I was a TWA International Flight Attendant back in the days you would have enjoyed flying. We served meals and in a delay - free cocktails for all! If a plane had a mechanical, there were even backup planes that could be substituted so that passengers were not delayed indefinitely. That was before de-regulation.
It was so successful with the airline industry, the powers that be chose to de-regulate the utility industry (they did in Delaware). Has that improved service or reduced costs due to competition? Just asking.
Steve, sounds like you came back from one of those flights from Heck. (have to watch my wording now so I don't offend anyone!)
I was stuck on the tarmac in Birmingham last year for 4 hours, after having been detoured from Atlanta because of weather. We were not allowed to get off the plane, there was no AC, very little food, and they only served water. This was at the end of a cross country 5 hour flight from Sarramento! Of course this plane had 6 screaming babies on it too!
Yes, we asked the flight attendants about that "passengers Bill of Rights" and were told it didn't pass legislagtion!
So what else are we supposed to do?
Yes, I agree with Sharon--what about doctors--how about we get a credit back for every minute we have to wait past our appointed time?
Definitely sounds like somebody just had a bad flight.
I just returned from a trip where we sat on the plane at the gate for 5 hrs only to be told that they couldn't get it fixed, deplaned and sat at the airport for 2 hrs while they decided what to do with the 300 passengers (transatlantic red eye- when we deplaned it was 1am) MAYBE some of you will get on the 10am tomorrow flight, everyone else will be here for 2 DAYS until the next flight. Then they said it was fixed and we were reboarding... oh wait, the crew has already worked 7 hrs and can't work again until after 8 hrs rest.
I'll spare you the rest of the details but after all was said and done we got to our destination 36 hours late.
I'm sorry Steve, I travel a lot and after seeing what people call carry on, I hope they do charge them. I've been assaulted with bags so heavy, people can't lift them into the overhead.
The way I see it,
Paul
I agree, you should fight back.
I don't think we agree on how to do that. My solution is "don't fly with that airline again". Better yet, let them know it!
If you don't like the service, don't buy it!
Steve, thinking that "I'm entitled" plays into the hands of a need for some BIG agency, like Obamism to step and provide you your "rights".
The media has molded our attitudes into thinking we're entitled to luxuries, and we're not.
You vote with your dollars. Just quit "voting" for any airline that treats you that way.
Email can seem so heartless. Sorry to sound like I'm attacking you. I'm not, I'm just saying I've been on both sides of the fence, as a consumer and I've owned businesses.
I like the free enterprise system and I see it being turned into a socialist state, so I vented on your idea, not on you, ok?
Keep up the good work of trying to make things better.
Kurt at GrossInternational.com
Having flown 7 million miles or so, I'll weigh in on this one. I see both sides very clearly.
I feel the pain of being a passenger: high fares for business travelers, lines everywhere, security theatre, tight seating, connections, delays, no jetway operator...and the list goes on as you all know.
But I would not want to be an airline either. They have to own billions of dollars worth of expensive aircraft, pay millions in maintenance fees, pay airport user fees, be in accordance with regulations, train their pilots and attendants, deal with unions, manage schedules of equipment, flights, meals and employees. They pull off the miracle of getting anyone to just about any city on earth, safely, within a day. And after all that, they have to deal with weather delays, somebody in flip-flops and a t-shirt smacking people with a backpack, talking loudly on a cell phone and complaining that it cost him $259 to fly round trip Minneapolis - LAX...and wishing he was served a multi-course meal.
As an agent, you see the airline side: providing all your good services, managing your clients, dealing with financing and legal issues then finally landing safely (selling the home). All to someone who wants a "good deal", see hundreds of homes, make low offers, list above market then asks you to cut your commission.
You see the public's view: hiring an agent who overprices the home, offers no advice, provides no marketing, then disappears forever.
Both airlines and passengers have much to do on this issue.
It sure beats driving for time in most cases to where I fly and to some it would be boating not driving. I am still waiting on a luggage claim for my daughters last flight. Her suitcase was drug by something and ripped to shreds. All her shoes in the outer pocket where destoyed but somehow most of her clothes stayed inside even tho there was no zipper left. They need store receipts etc - who keeps those for everything they ever bought???
Unfortunately, in the past 10 years or more I've come to expect poor customer service from all industries.
Frank and Sharon,
I agree. One doctor I see routinely makes me wait over an hour. Of course, this could soon change for the much worse with national health care. Let's keep that from happening. :)
Steve
John,
When you factor in the waits, the connections, and the screening, it often is quicker to drive. :)
Steve
Liz,
No, I rarely fly anymore. This is a collection of experiences. Airlines have forgotten that they move people and not objects. :)
Steve
Bob and Carolin,
I do also, but this part of what's wrong with our health care system - that proposes to get even worse. Patients are scheduled 4-6 per hour and it's like piece-work for the doctors. Forget trying to have a conversation. :)
Steve
Marcia,
They've probably figured out that no one will buy it - who wants stale, recirculated, germ-ridden air? :)
Steve
Rich,
That isn't as important as trying to foist health care and cap and trade on us. :)
Steve
Tim,
I wonder the same thing. Perhaps if the really improved the checked luggage where you could actually check a computer or camera and not worry about it - and not pay for it - the boarding process would be rapid and smooth. :)
Steve
Gary,
Or perhaps so much a mile or to belong to their mileage clubs. :)
Steve
Sandy,
That might be a good start. Every business has issues. You learn to work with them. :)
Steve
Kathy,
I remember those days. I don't know what was regulated or how, but we had more compeition and better attitudes then. :)
Steve
Linda,
The other day a captain pleaded with the tower to let his passengers off the plane during a delay. TSA wouldn't approve it. :)
Steve
Linda,
At least with doctors we have some choice about who we go to - for now. :)
Steve
Julia,
Does the thought ever occur to them that the reason we are flying is because we need to be someplace - usually sooner than later? They act like this is secondary to their issues. :)
Steve
Paul,
It's wouldn't be just for some - it also would apply to the people who know what proper carry-on is. :)
Steve
Kurt,
Your comments are well received. Thanks. The problem is that I have eliminated ALL airlines. Not one does what they used to do when they were more interested in providing a pleasant experience than in just flying a bunch of human cargo. :)
Steve
Pick the service you want to use and be happy it is available to you. You don't have to fly or use any doctor that makes you wait. It is your choice. Complaining does not change a thing. The next generation won't miss the service as they never knew it existed.
How about being happy that you are alive and have options living in a great country. Seems as we get older, we complain about the good old days and what used to be. Having had the opportunity to travel to most parts of the world, it seems to me we still have it pretty good in this country. Freedom means you have a choice. Appreciate and enjoy what you have.
If realtors were held accountable, there may be better realtors, too.
David,
Thanks for adding your great perspective. I understand the airlines have huge costs - that's part of doing business. As for the personnel issue, don't even know where to start except maybe at the top of each airline. :)
Steve
Kathleen,
At least they are even willing to talk to you about instead of just dismissing it (been there). :)
Steve
Airline travel is horrible, but it is a free market system. I do think there should be some laws in regard to situations where passengers have been left setting on the tarmac for hours, even overnight. Pay the price and go the airline that gives you the service you want.
I used to fly Southwest a lot. The cattle call for seats was almost a joke. The limited service was almost a badge of honor to them. However, I flew cheap and I like the people that work for Southwest; it is a great company.
Jon,
Which is why it is so refreshing when we do get good service. :)
Steve
Steve, just curious what brought this about. Did you have a poor experience recently or are you just venting your dissatisfaction with the airline industry as a whole?
It is nice to get good service, and I do appreciate it when it happens. flying is getting extremely expensive, as is most everything
I have greatly reduced the number of flights a year I take. I hate flying anymore. The hassle at the airport, the poor service and the seats being made so close together that I cramp up.
My wife just got back from a mainland trip where they lost the luggage for 1/2 the people on the flight. It took them a few hours stuck at the airport after a late night long flight.
Just have to learn to pack lightly-ship whatever else.
Remember when you could sell your return ticket to just anyone? If I had the choice I'd rather not fly, but it's a really long boat ride to get off these islands!
Steve- Sorry I missed this post and you really received some great comments, and great post for the group ........
CUSTOMER SERVICE
And Featured!
Lst flight I went on I would have eaten better had I taken a box of Cracker Jacks.
My husband and I are so sick of the cattle car treatment that we simply will only fly business class or better now. All the airlines seem to treat their passengers equally badly but since flying is the only way to get where we need to go at times, we've decided to pay more to be comfortable even if it means traveling less often.
Low fares to get you to buy the ticket and then upcharge the passenger for everything else and they still lose money. If we ran our business' that way we wouldn't last very long and wouldn't get any government subsidy. But really, I'd just be happy if they enforced the carryon bag size so these small steamer trunks that some people call an overnight bag would go in baggage instead of in the overhead compartments. If your schedule is so tight that you need to save 10 - 15 minutes waiting for your bags then you need to slow down and smell some roses.
When airlines served food (?) for free and let you check 2 bags for free they were making a profit. Some Captains were making $180,000 per year and they were making a profit. Now, despite cutting the number of flights dramatically with resultant occupancy rates up to 86% (used to be that 67% occupancy was break even) airlines are losing money. Why?
First, Labor costs, both current payrolls and pensions (largely under funded) continues to eat the trough. Concessions to unions; pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers and ticket takers, killed the profit line.
Second, fuel. The route structure, the highway in the sky, is the same as it was in the '60's. Why? FAA computers and radar systems are older than that Atari you threw out in 1976. Why? Cause the Feds, the FAA, the airlines and small pilot guys can't agree on who'll pay for and be in charge of maintaining a new system. So, computer designed airplanes cannot optimize their fuel efficiency by flying in a straight line from takeoff to destination. They have to fly a 1960's track.
Third, fares are ridiculous. Too cheap on the routes of heavy competition and too high on small market routes.
Solution? Save your commissions. Get a private pilots license. Buy a plane. Enjoy the sky.
Very true Steve. Thanks for speaking up. Things have really changed...for the worse!
Not enough people hold them accountable. It's just not with the airlines, it's with everything. Also, no one wants to write or put up a fuss to get things changed.
Another voice,
Thanks for your comments. I am thrilled to be living in this country and I value free enterprise and choices. That's why I posted these comments. There are no enterprising airline companies. They all take turns following one another. :)
Steve
Gene,
Airlines have gotten so large thet they are "big business" and no longer function as the small businesses many of them once were. :)
Steve
James,
I am dissatisfied with the general corporate mentality of any big business. :)
Steve
Ginger,
Flying isn't always expensive, but it's the general experience that is not pleasant. :)
Steve
Randy,
I used to fly a couple of times a month. Now it's down to a couple of times a year. Just not fun. :)
Steve
Al,
If it was only a baggage issue, perhaps. It's soooo much more than that. :)
Steve
Georgina,
I do remember that. I also remember open jaws which used to be very common. :)
Steve
Robert,
Thanks for the feature on the Customer Service group. Appreciate the interest and support. :)
Steve
Steve,
Airlines don't provide service, just transportation. That's the whole issue. :)
Steve
Jenny,
Even first-class service seems to have suffered from what it was even a few years ago. :)
Steve
Steven,
It isn't just the fact of saving time. It's walking off the plane with what you need for your trip instead of finding out it didn't get on the plane, was routed incorrectly, or damaged. :)
Steve
John,
I like your insights and analysis. Thanks. To me, the unions are a real big issue. :)
Steve
Mark,
Thanks for adding your support to the discussion. :)
Steve
Lyn,
I think you have described the conundrum rather well. :)
Steve
Personally, I think it's good the airlines are making some changes. They are blunt with their fees. Why should they fly all that extra weight for free? We could all become a little more minimalistic. I just read the new book $20 Per Gallon, and I would highly recommend it. The airlines did this as a response to rising oil prices. I'd rather they do this then raise prices more. I can travel with a carry on. This book is fascinating. We should move toward a high speed rail system. 95% of the transporation budget goes to roads. If the government shifted this to public transportation, we'd all win! But cheap oil has created this mess, and it's going to run out. It's a finite resource.
Danell,
Setting the airline issue aside and talking about your oil comment, oil might be finite with over 100 years of it - maybe way more than that. However, it can be and is manufactured. Competition is what we need. Rail is such competition, but trains burn diesel. Electricity is produced through burning coal or oil. There are tradoffs in many energy sources. :)
Steve
The last time I had to fly--the airport looked like a bus station. With all these refugees boarding planes. There was a time when flying was cool; it has now become a chore.
Al,
That's because the airlines have forgotten that they are in the service business and not the transportation business. :)
Steve